A Harvard professor and author has stunned podcast host Joe Rogan by telling him that nearly every lithium battery-powered tech device the Western world relies on today is powered by slavery in the mines of cobalt in the Congo.

Siddharth Kara, author of the book Cobalt Red: How The Blood of The Congo Powers Our Lives, insists there is no such thing as “clean cobalt” – the term given to describe ethically mined cobalt.

Appearing on Joe Rogan’s podcast earlier this week, he told the Spotify host that in fact almost every device in use today that relies on a lithium battery is powered by slavery.

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Siddharth Kara, author of the book Cobalt Red: How The Blood of The Congo Powers Our Lives, insists there is no such thing as ‘clean cobalt’ – the term given to describe ethically mined cobalt

A dumbfounded Joe Rogan asked if there was such a thing as “clean cobalt”. Kara told him there was none and said the concept was “all marketing”

To back up his argument, he shared videos he took at mines in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which show hundreds, if not thousands, of miners digging by hand.

“Cobalt is found in every rechargeable lithium battery manufactured in the world today.

“Every smartphone, every tablet, every laptop and, most importantly, every electric vehicle,” he said, depends on it.

A general view of artisanal miners working at the Shabara artisanal mine near Kolwezi on October 12, 2022. Kara said he had never seen a mine where child labor and slavery were not present

Dela wa Monga, an artisanal miner, holds a cobalt stone at the Shabara artisanal mine near Kolwezi on October 12, 2022

“We cannot operate on a daily basis without cobalt, and three-quarters of the supply comes from Congo. And it is operated in appalling, harrowing and dangerous conditions.

“Overall, the world doesn’t know what’s going on…I don’t think people know how awful it is,” he said.

Asked by Rogan about the concept of “clean cobalt”, Kara replied, “It’s marketing.”

He insists he has “never seen” a cobalt mine where child labor and slavery are clearly not present.

Kara says the mines are mainly controlled by the Chinese.

In an op-ed for CNN last year, he described visiting a mine where a child told him how he would dig for heterogenite, the main source of cobalt, then sell it to ‘buying houses’. – which Kara described as being run by “Chinese agents.”

These agents resell the cobalt to foreign mining companies.

“Just like that, the cobalt collected by a child in the Congo enters the formal supply chain,” he writes.

US companies like Tesla and Apple have in the past promised to crack down on human rights abuses and slavery in the cobalt supply chain.

Elon Musk has vowed to switch to a cobalt-free battery to power his electronic vehicles, and Apple has been recognized by human rights watchdogs as the leader in the fight against slavery in the industry.

A lithium-ion battery, the type found in most smartphones, tablets, and electric vehicles

The Biden administration also recently struck a deal with Zambia and the DRC to flush the supply chain of abuses.

The lingering problem, according to Kara, is the Chinese government’s control of the market.

“Before anyone knew what was going on, [the] Chinese government [and] Chinese mining companies have taken over almost all major mines and local people have been displaced,” he told Rogan.

Now, African nations are under “coercion” from China to meet demand.

“They’re digging in absolutely inhumane and heartbreaking conditions for a dollar a day, feeding cobalt into the supply chain of every phone, every tablet, and especially electric cars,” he said.

American companies like Telsa still bear some of the blame, he said.

“It’s the bottom of the supply chain for your iPhone, your Tesla, your Samsung.”

Kara says the COVID-19 pandemic has made matters worse by shutting down the most responsible foreign mines.

This has put artisanal miners – those who dig by hand – into overdrive, without any regulation, according to Kara.

He offered to organize trips to Congo for CEOs of companies that use lithium batteries to show them the damage firsthand.